[Editor’s Note: The following story contains spoilers for “Talk to Me.”]
It’s easy to imagine Danny and Michael Philippou — rowdy Australian twins-turned-famous YouTubers-turned-Sundance breakout filmmakers — goofing up. Search the pair on Getty Images, and you’ll find photographs of them at a Comic-Con event in July, for their buzzy new horror flick “Talk to Me,” all but smashing their skulls together for press. (Seriously, it looks like there was a…body slam?)
The duo, known as RackaRacka online, brought the same energy to a Zoom interview with IndieWire ahead of their head trauma-heavy film‘s opening weekend, during which the pair playfully fought and recounted an awkward text exchange with A24 golden boy and “Beau Is Afraid” writer/director Ari Aster.
“There was a tweet going around that Ari Aster had liked the movie,” Michael said to IndieWire. The co-directors met the “Hereditary” filmmaker at their “Talk to Me” Sundance premiere, where Aster was a guest and the film was purchased by A24 in a reportedly high seven-figure deal.
“We had just gotten Ari’s number and we were sending texts, and a friend of mine sent me a message saying, ‘Guys, Ari Aster liked your movie! Look at this tweet!’” Michael continued. “And I screenshotted Ari’s latest message — it was just like a small message — and I sent it saying, ‘Who? This guy?’ But I accidentally sent it to Ari.”
“It was so embarrassing,” Danny said. He explained that his brother never told Aster about the mix-up because the screenshot oddly “sounded like it was part of the conversation, but it wasn’t.”
In a vlog documenting their experience at Sundance — effectively, a college acceptance reaction video, but for selling a movie to A24 — the brothers included Aster among the notable horror voices who reached out to them about “Talk to Me”; Stephen King and Jordan Peele are reportedly also fans.
In a sprawling conversation with heavy “Talk to Me” spoilers, the Philippou brothers told IndieWire about making the leap from YouTube to theaters; the surprisingly joyful horror community, as they’ve experienced it in person and online; the fun of crafting an artifact like their film’s central creepy hand and its mysterious missing mate; and the plans they just so happened to have with Aster that afternoon.
The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.
IndieWire:You co-directed “Talk to Me.” But Danny, you co-wrote it with Bill Hinzman and the main story was adapted from another idea. What can you tell me about the script?
Danny Philippou: Well, there was a short film that got sent to me by Daley Pearson that was sort of like a comedy-horror, and it was about these kids that were having fun with possession and the tone was really different. There was no hand or anything like that. But I really connected with that idea.
And also, there was this neighbor that we [Michael and I] knew growing up and there was footage of him experimenting with drugs for the first time. He was having a negative reaction to the drug and he was on the floor convulsing, and everyone that he was with him was just filming him and laughing at him. I remember seeing that footage and then that short film, and I don’t know, they just felt like they lived in the same space.
So I did a rewrite and once I started writing, I couldn’t stop. I brought in these characters that I really connected with from another project — which is the Mia, Jade, and Riley dynamic — and then, I started to bounce that back and forth with my co-writer Bill Hinzman. So we really focused on that story that became “Talk to Me.”
Michael Philippou: The good thing about having a talented co-writer like Hinzman is we can just write pages and pages of scenes and moments and characters and not worry about structure and things like that. We can just write, write, write, and then he helps mold it into a film. He’s so smart with film that he really helps us evolve the script with every pass. It’s the same with having like an amazing producer. You can really lean on them in those aspects, which is amazing. Because if it was just us by ourselves—
DP: Michael did not write a word of “Talk to Me.”
MP: You by yourself would be a very different script. [Laughter.]
Was it important to you to make an internet-based horror for your first film, given your history with YouTube?
DP: I just know that I was writing something that felt authentic to me and the world that I know. With youth culture and with young people, everyone’s got their phones out, everyone’s using their phones. So it was never like trying to make a statement or trying to represent anything specifically. It was more just writing something that felt real, and that just feels real to me. I think if this thing did exist and possessions were real, there’s no doubt in my mind that kids would be filming it and uploading it. You just have to look up #possession or #ouijaboard to find everyone attempting to do it or wanting things to happen [in the real world].
At what point did you bring Michael onto the project? When did it feel like a feature?
DP: After maybe a couple of drafts, I’d share [whatever I was working on] with Michael and he would just always give really brutal feedback.
MP: Because you stole all your ideas from our other scripts! [Laughter.
DP: I find that when I’m really attached to something, I’ll cannibalize other things that I’ve written to try and strengthen that thing. I’m like really attached to this character from this script and I’m really attached to this set piece, and instead of trying to save one for another film, I’ll try to put that into this and make it the ultimate thing that it can be.
MP: He’ll bring me in when there’s something decent to read. We share when we know we’ll get a good response from each other.
DP: He’s super brutal. Otherwise, he’ll just tear it apart. [Laughter.]
To what extent do you feel like your sibling dynamic is ultimately reflected in the film? We’ve got the main brother-sister pair with Jade and Riley. But also the brothers from the cold open.
MP: Well, I stabbed Danny at a party. [Laughter.] I’m joking.
DP: My thing that I really connect with is Mia trying to escape her family with another family. That’s definitely how I feel about Michael. I’m like, “Alright, you wait there. I’m going with someone else.” [Laughter.]
MP: Yeah, and you’re intruding and they’re like, “Get the fuck away from me.” [Laughter.]
DP: Me and Michael just butt heads a lot. So there’s that [in the script]. And then we edited it all together, which we butted heads in. And now, we’ve got to do press together. You finally think you’ll get a break on the plane, and then we’re sitting next to each other on the plane and it’s like, “Oh god. Give me a break from Michael.”
MP: Oh, poor you, Danny. Going around the world, poor you. [Laughs.]
I loved watching your YouTube video recapping your experience selling “Talk to Me” to A24 at Sundance. How has your online fan base reacted to your transition into feature films?
DP: If you just read those comments in that video, they’re so heartwarming and they feel so personal. These people that have grown up watching our videos and have grown up supporting us from all over the world, these people going to go experience this film being excited for us and supporting us? There’s nothing like it. It was the first time that I felt really, really connected to my audience. And like there’s a love there. That comment section will make me emotional if I go through and start reading.
MP: We have such an amazing fan base that really has stuck by us and they’re so supportive. I love the connection that we have with them. Sometimes people get nervous as well, like coming up and taking photos. We get DMs from people who wanted to come up and get a photo, but were too nervous or whatever. For us, it’s like, never be nervous. Without our fans and the people that supported us, we wouldn’t be where we are.
How would you describe the online horror community? It’s so much more joyful than people expect.
DP: That’s the most surprising thing is meeting those extreme horror fans. They are the most bubbly, fun people ever.
MP: We all have a dark side, and you can express that through horror. Even writers, like Danny writing horrific stories, it’s just like a kind of therapy in a way. It’s like, “Oh, Danny’s smashed the little boy’s face into the table. Good! Now he can be happy.” [Laughter.]
DP: Everyone’s so welcoming, and love meeting, like, horror-horror fans and seeing their collections and them like coming to the screenings and being so supportive. We’re so new to this community, but we’re feeling the love for sure.
It was interesting listening to people coming out of my screening, so instantly drawn to the idea of the hand and the artifact of the hand. Was it important to you to establish a visual trademark that could fit in with broader horror iconography?
DP: It wasn’t in the first draft of the script; it came in the second draft of the script because we knew we wanted a haunted object and thematically, all the way through the first draft, it was all about touch and human connection. Hands were such a recurring motif. Like if you go back and watch the film, there’s a whole lot of hands in there outside of the hand that it just felt right to be our object of horror. It felt like once we found that, we were like, “Oh my God, this has been here the entire time.”
MP: It’s a physical representation of everything that was being spoken about, and it was important to us to find the history of the hand — just like the characters. It makes it so much more dynamic of an experience if you know the backstory and what led the hand to being where it is.
DP: But only we know that; a lot of people don’t. We like just sprinkling hints of it on the screen. I like that people can try and come to their own conclusion. Just know that the hand itself is a bit of a Rubik’s cube, and there’s some hints on there as well.
But was the hand that we see at the end — the one being “answered” by Mia — is that the same hand in a different country? Or is it a second hand? Because one of the character’s talks about Satan’s two hands, right?
MP: We will neither confirm nor deny!
DP: We’d love for that to be left up to interpretation, but that’s a very good question. I love that question.
That’s fair. Ari Aster takes a similar approach with his movies. You mentioned him in your YouTube video. What was the experience of meeting him like?
MP: The fucking best! He’s the coolest guy ever. We’re actually going to hang out with him after this, today.
DP: Today! Today, yeah!
What are you guys doing?
DP: We’re watching a film that’s not out yet. We’re doing a little preview screening of another A24 film.
MP: We’ve hung out with him like five or six times now. And we talk through text. It’s amazing, he’s such a hero of ours and swapping stories on set? It feels like speaking to a brother in a way. He’s got such an amazing mind, such an amazing sense of humor.
DP: But like, better than a brother. Because Michael’s a bit lame. [Laughter.] He’s like the cool brother, do you know what I mean?
MP: What, you gonna ask Ari Aster to be on the flight with ya?
What was Ari’s first reaction to “Talk to Me”?
DP: Oh my God. Well, the agents were trying to sign us initially when we got into Sundance. And so there was all this buzz around the film. A24 was going to be there, all these distributors, and one of them brought Ari Aster along. And so, the whole time we were so nervous and in the back of the cinema just cringing. It was so embarrassing to me.
Once the film had wrapped, I leaned over to Michael and said, “I’m going to go apologize to Ari for being dragged here by one of the agents.” So I got up to walk over to him to apologize and say, “I’m so sorry you got dragged here.” But he turned around and he is like, “Man, that was really special.” And I was like, “… What?” He just really connected with the film and said how much he loved it, and man, that meant the world to us.
MP: I’ve got an embarrassing Ari story.
DP: Wait, no, maybe don’t say that because you’re seeing Ari.
MP: What? Why not?
DP: Do you reckon he’ll find it weird?
MP: Nah, he wouldn’t. But we do plan on hanging out with him again. [Laughter.] So, initially, there was the premiere…
DP: This is so cringy.
MP: There was the premiere of the film, right? And there was a tweet going around that Ari Aster had liked the movie. And we had just gotten Ari’s number and we were sending texts, and a friend of mine sent me a message saying, “Guys, Ari Aster liked your movie! Look at this tweet!” And I screenshotted Ari’s latest message — it was just like a small message — and I sent it saying, “Who? This guy?” But I accidentally sent it to Ari.
DP: It was so embarrassing. [Laughter.]
MP: I’ve got to tell him now. I’ve got to tell him when we say hi. I never screenshot people’s messages—
DP: Well, you did!
MP: It wasn’t anything like personal or anything! It was just a small thing. And it kind of lent into what he was saying because it was something like, “he needs to see it” or “he’d be an idiot if he didn’t like it.” And then I said, “Who? This guy?”
DP: It sounded like it was part of the conversation, but it wasn’t. [Laughter.]
Was the desk head-slamming scene with Riley in part an homage to “Hereditary”?
DP: No, it was more about sitting down in that spot and just trying to find out how could we physically hurt ourselves. I remember just sitting down, trying to act through a bunch of the scenes, And so, I’ve got the hand and I’ve been tied down. And then it was just literally trying to work through the scenes and trying to find it by acting it out. It was just in the writing process that it was the only way I could find of hurting myself while tied down.
What’s next for you, separately or as a team?
DP: We definitely want to do more horror films, and we definitely want to do an action film as well. So they’re the two genres that we’re super excited about. But with that being said, I’ve also written a romantic comedy, but I haven’t got the balls to direct that yet.
MP: With YouTube we were able to get a lot of the small ideas outta the way, but we have a lifetime of feature ideas and characters and stories we want to tell. So we’re very excited. If we have the opportunity to keep making stuff, we’ll be here for a long time.
“Talk to Me” is in theaters.
